(Photo Essay in Chinese) Open this article in PDF
Interview by Metropolitan Magazine of Beijing《城市画报》杂志 北京特辑 TO 阿南史代女士
1、您小时候就喜欢亲近自然，喜欢历史吗？您小时候的爱好与您这么多年做的事有内在联系吗？ When you were growing up was there anything that encouraged your interest in trees?
When I was growing up in New Orleans, Louisiana, USA, my family spent a lot of time enjoying the outdoors and nature. There are giant oak trees in the park near my house and I loved climbing trees (I was a bit of a tom boy).I also became interested in traveling and travelers because there were many ships from foreign countries docked at the port on the Mississippi. In high school I studied Buddhism and its philosophy intrigued me. Thus in university I studied history, geography, and Asian Studies. I did the same in graduate school, with the focus on China.
2、您跟树的关系是怎样的？怎么建立起来的？能对话吗？是种什么感觉，是视觉，听觉，还是触觉？How did your interest in Beijing trees come about? How do you study them?
I really first became interested in trees as the sentinels of history when I was researching the temples in the city and suburbs of Beijing from 1983. Often the tree is the only thing left that identifies an ancient site. When people in a village did not know the name of the temple I was asking for, or they thought because it was in ruins, that the temple didn’t exist any more, I would simply ask where is the oldest tree and I would be immediately taken to the ancient sacred site.
Yes, I like to relate to trees in many ways. Of course, I look at them: their height, their girth, their shape. I photograph them in all seasons. Winter is also beautiful because the trunk and branches are visible and make wonderful sculptural shapes. But I also like to touch the old bark and sometimes feel the leaves. Some cypress, baishu, have huge knobs on their trunks and I like to rub my back on them. With special trees I also do qigong in front of them because they have a powerful life force if they have lived for hundreds of years.
3、每一棵树后面都有一个故事。在北京搜寻到的树木中，哪棵树的故事最触动您？You say that every tree has a story. Which story is the most memorable?
There are so many stories, it is hard to choose. Trees represent different kinds of stories. For example, they may be related to a special person such as the ginkgo planted by Guo Muruo in his garden: The Mama Tree, to remember his first wife.(p.69) Then there are stories about a certain event like the time Li Zicheng time up his horse to a great ginkgo, thus the name Shuang Ma Shu.(p.141) Or the tree itself may be the subject such as the ginkgo tree at Qi Wang Fen that was ordered to be cut down by Empress Dowager Cixi, because she was jealous of it.(p.134-135) There are many legends about couple trees in the Beijing area. Two trees represent a boy and a girl who couldn’t get married so they either joined a Buddhist monastery and left the world or committed suicide. There is a grand ginkgo in Pinggu that represents a girl who never could marry her lover. After more than 600 years she is still beautiful. (p. 278). The most common story is that a certain tree is a saint itself. The villagers believe that the holy tree protects their village and they give offerings and guard it from danger. At Xiezishi Village in Yanqing, (p.223) the villagers even surrounded their tree when officials wanted to cut it down to use the trunk in the construction of a bridge. The tree is still there with a red apron around it to show that it is a special tree.
4、北京的树与美国及日本的树比起来，性格有什么区别吗？中国南方的树与北方的树的最大的区别又是如何？How do you compare Beijing trees with those found in the U.S. and Japan? And how are the trees of south China different from those in the north?
I am not an expert on the biology of trees. But of course I also photograph trees in America and Japan. Recently I went to the Redwood Forest in California and saw the giant sequoia trees. They are the largest living things on earth. Japan is famous for its many aged cedar trees and they are considered as gods. Holy ropes and white papers are put on them to recognize their sacredness. Shrines are built nearby to revere them. The trees of north and south China, of course, differ a lot. From a historical point of view, one fact is that the sacred tree of Buddhism, the pipal (bodh) tree cannot grow in North Asia, so other trees have taken its place in Buddhist temple compounds. The ginkgo and catalpa trees or cypress are planted instead.
5、树连着大地，您也踩着大地，您觉得这是一种缘分吗？Can you say that you had a destiny with trees
Wow, I don’t know whether or not I have had a destiny with trees. I do know that they have led me to understand a lot about history and thanks to them have met many people who have enriched my life.
6、中国人觉得万物有情，在您拍摄树、石、水的时候，您感受到他们的“情”了吗？Chinese believe that all natural objects have character. In your photos of trees, stones and water do you feel their character?
Yes, I believe that everything has character and shows emotion. I think of the old stones on pilgrim paths that can be found in the mountains and hills around Beijing. They are weathered by the footsteps of believers. They take on the spiritual strength of those myriads of people who have trod on them. Water is a bit more difficult, but if you talk to people who gather water at the various springs of Beijing, they will tell you that the character of each spring is different from the other. The Emperor Qianlong certainly believed that water has personality. He renamed the Hunhe (Unruly River) as the Yongdinghe (Fixed River) so it would behave and be a stable river instead of causing so many floods.
7、在当地人和您谈起当地的一棵树时，您感觉到他们与树之间是怎样的一种关系？更年轻的人，他们对当地的树木、雄石等是否也有深厚感情呢？How about the locals and their attitudes toward their trees?
The people of Beijing have always appreciated the shade given by scholartrees (huai shu) lining their hutongs. Also, so many trees in the city are given fond nicknames, showing the love that people have for them. The tree becomes even more important if it was planted by a famous person. The cypress tree (bai shu) has a special spirituality attached to it (dating from the great Yellow Emperor. His tomb has many baishu (cypress) planted around it). In villages, trees are even more important. They usually stand in the place of the village shrine (gumiao) and it is a place for people to gather. I think of the two old trees at Tiankai Village in Fangshan District which is the site of the daily market in the center of the village. As I have said before, these village trees are often considered sacred, like the great ginkgo at Guangou in Changping or the large elm tree at Changshoucun in Yanqing.
There seems to be a generational difference in attitudes towards trees. They young people appear not to be so interested. Yet what an elderly villager starts talking with me about village history or the story about the aged tree, then the young people gather and listen. They want to know why this foreigner is listening so intently to the village elder. Once I had a photo exhibition on old trees at a nursing school in Beijing. After I talked to the nurses, many from the rural areas of Beijing came up to me and told me that they saw the photo of the tree in their village. They never thought that that tree was important before, they never even thought it should be photographed, but when they saw my photo they were very proud to see their village tree given this recognition.
8、您认为，古迹对于一个城市有着怎样的意义？怎样让人们比以往更为重视这些城市历史的代表物？What is the im@portance of old trees to a city? How do the trees connect with Beijing’s history?
Temple ruins, stone relics, old pagodas, and aged trees are an important part of any modern city as they are connections to the past. They give one a sense of perspective. Sometimes when I was photographing worn out places, people would come up to me and tell me to stop photographing these weathered monuments. They were ashamed that they weren’t fixed up and made beautiful I can understand their sentiments, but they fail to understand that I see these things as beautiful with the “moss of history”, how they have aged naturally and haven’t been painted new. I think that the way to encourage respect of these old things, whether they be temples or trees or just some rocks, is to share the stories of these things, to put up a sign with why it is important and maybe then people will think about it. I remember looking for ruins of an old pagoda in Fangshan district. In a garbage dump I found a stone from the old pagoda. The villagers just looked on with amazement that I was photographing that stone. I told them it was part of the old pagoda and read them the history of the pagoda I had in a book. Then the school children joined in and helped me turn overt the stone and found writing on it and the older students started to read the writing aloud. Then more people gathered and they decided that the stone should be protected and they rolled it out of the garbage dump.
The greatest danger to the old trees is cement. Now there is money to cement the village paths, which is more convenient. But often the cement covers the roots of old trees or there is digging around the roots of old trees. They get weaker, get sick and die. There are many examples of that happening in the past ten years. Recently, there is protection for the old trees within the city and trees are sometimes moved and planted again if they are in a construction site. Or sometimes a road is made to detour around the old tree. This is a good example of caring for the trees within the modern city.
9、认识万物、认识历史，对于现在的中国人、北京人非常重要吗？Do you think the relics and trees are really that important to a city such as Beijing?
Of course they are important to people of China and Beijing. A city without history is very boring. It doesn’t have a center of gravity. People might forget that Beijing was a capital city also in the Liao and Jin dynasties. But of you study the ancient sites and look at the old trees you will find many relics from those times. I am thinking of the row of 7 giant cypress trees at Zhongshan Park, they are relics from a Liao dynasty temple that once stood there. (p/42)Or you can go to Dajuesi Temple in Haidian and find the King of Ginkgos from over 1,000 years ago and a Liao Dynasty stele. (p.100-103)They help us remember that this capital has much deeper roots than the Gugong.
10、不仅是看历史书去学习历史，而是在游玩中去发现历史，这对您来说是最好的方式？您认为这种方式最能认识历史吗？How to study history? Should it be research or on site field work?
Both reading books and exploring are important. I am a great advocate of learning on the spot. As a teacher of history I have always taken my students on expeditions and told them the stories of history. That impresses them for life, even if they don’t become historians themselves. For that reason, I hope that Beijing will leave some of the valleys and relics just as they are with no restoration. That way the future generations can enjoy the excitement of exploring in natural settings. But I am afraid that the development of rural areas is moving too fast.
11、不论是您在城乡调查拍摄古迹，又或是您踏寻圆仁法师走过的路。您对行走有着特殊的偏好？对您来说，行走的意义是什么？You seem to do a lot of walking. Not only for trees but also in serach of the China path of the Japanese monk Ennin.
Yes, I love walking because it gives you time to see, time to take in all around you, time to meet people by chance. The Japanese monk Ennin who walked in Tang China for nine years 838 to 847, wrote down all that he saw from his walking. His Diary gives a great and rare history of the common people and rural areas of China at that time. For him walking was also spiritual because it brought him close to nature and the essence of Buddhism.
12、通过在大自然中游走来与城市及乡村的居民会面，并聆听他们的故事。您从中获得了什么？What is good about the walking? What do you get out of it?
By walking, I got a deeper understanding of China and its people. I was able to meet people from all walks of life. I could find things more easily than if I just passed by with a car. I remember finding the remnants of an ancient coal delivery stone road in Mentougou District that is high up on a cliff. Only by walking around that village and talking to people and by climbing up the cliff could I get the view of what the travelers from old times had by walking this now forgotten road. The stories I have heard and written down are very precious because many of the old people are passing away. Their memories and legends are precious for their community.
13、您生在西方，却对东方的文化及美学研究颇深。中国人爱好玩石头、玩木、近水，您眼中的东方哲学是怎样？包含着对自然的一种敬仰吗？You are from the west but you seem to have the oriental perspective toward nature.
Yes, I was born and raised in America, but I have lived in Asia for almost 40 years. Certainly, Oriental philosophies and religions such as Buddhism, Daosim and Shintoism have special reverence for nature. Respect for nature is obvious in Chinese art.
14、从八十年代初，您开始关注和记录北京。您认为什么是“看不见的北京”（有哪些是常被人忽略或几近遗忘的物品和场所或者习俗？）You began taking interest in Beijing places since the 1980s and have seen a lot. What comments or suggestions do you have?
Many people failed to recognize that the old trees were also cultural relics, “wenwu” and did not include them when they described the site or wrote the history. There are also many beautiful mountain ranges around Beijing, and quite a few are being destroyed by digging for stones and for use as cement plants. These unusual mountains are also part of the city’s heritage.
I was very saddened when the last “guojielou”, “hall built across the road”, was destroyed to make a new development. The Guanyinyuan in Xuanwu District was in fair condition and still had the two halls on either side of the street and the little hall that crossed the road. Why couldn’t they have incorporated the old hall it into the new modern design? So many people opposed it But is was demolished, and the developers won. It was easy to tear it down, but impossible to rebuild! That quaint corner of Beijing has lost its flavor forever. In the rush of the last couple years to make everything look “beautiful”, many quaint corners of Beijing have disappeared because there was no time to think about what these places might add to the flavor of the city in the future and that those places held the history for the neighborhood. That is another aspect that also seems to have been overlooked: the fact that ordinary neighborhoods also have their culture.
15、在北京的时候，您会感觉您是北京人吗？您希望像当地人一样生活吗？ You’ve been here for a long time. Do you feel you are a Beijinger?
I have lived in Beijing altogether 12 years, so I feel I have the right to call myself a Beijinger. I do things that are traditional with the seasons like ice skating on the Shichahai or climbing mountains on the Double Ninth (9 month 9 day). I love eating Beijing snacks like “tanghuluor”(haws on a stick) and “kaobaishu”(roasted sweet potatoes). I love the temple fairs.(miao hui)
16、您在北京的生活通常是怎样？在这个城市里，什么样的氛围让您觉得最为舒服？How was your daily life in Beijing?
Every week I went out to explore at least three times. Sometimes, it would be a place in the city like looking for trees in the hutongs. Other times they would be major excursionsfurther away to Miyun in the east or Mentougou in the west searching for relics from the past. These activities made me very happy and I made many new friends.
17、请推荐奥运期间在北京看古树的6个地点，并请告诉我们看哪些树、什么时间看比较好？Please choose 6 favorite places and times to visit.
1. Tiantan, Altar to Heaven: early morning
2. Beihai Park(especially the Tuancheng) and Jingshan Park(walk from south exit into Beihai Park, visit Tuancheng and Jade Islet then walk across to the west gate of Jingshan Park and walk around the northern and eastern part of the park and then up the hill from the east and exit again from the west gate): early evening
3. Taimiao(Laodong Renmin Wenhuagong) and Zhongshan Park, any time of day, but springtime is best with all the flowers in Zhongshan Park. Enter Taimiao from south gate, walk along the eastern axis to the north, then Walk from Taimiao west gate to Zhongshan east gate, Exit Zhongshan Park from south gate.
4. Kongmiao (Temple to Confucius) and Guozijian: nice and quiet place with few visitors. Just sit quietly among the ancient cypress trees. The two places are now connected with an inner gate
5. Soong Qingling (Madam Sun Yatsen) old home: daytime Enjoy the glory of the phoenix scholartree.
6. Jietaisi and Tanzhesi: day trip to visit the places with the most wondrous trees in Beijing Subway to Pingguoyuan, then taxi or bus 20 or 40 minutes to the two temples.